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Friday, November 25, 2011: 8:59 am
More from Danny Stewart
I couldn't agree more. There are indeed conservative democrats and liberal republicans.
Where we part a little is on who the corporations are supporting. If you look, you will see that corporations donate far more money to the democrats than to republicans. As you said, they are lobbying. It's their way of getting around the regulations that the democrats like. G.E. is the prime example. And it is on record that Obama has received more money from the wall street corporations than anyone in history.
I agree that if we could get rid of the lobbyists, things would be better off. Personalll, I think we are all just pawns in someones sick little game and all we can really do is the best that we can to deal with it.
As far as my time in the Teamsters, there was only one warehouse in the company that was union. The rest of the company was non-union and the company actually paid the non-union workers more than the union workers and they had many more benefits such as retirement long before we did.
Now,You mentioned something about a co-worker lying to your boss in a non-union place. Yes, it does happen. I've experienced it first hand. Unfortunately, people are people and life is not fair. Never has been, nor will it ever be. I've seen this scenario played out in the union too.
As far as the party line. No, I don't play the party line. Too many republicans in the republican party and not enough conservatives. Trust me, there is a difference.
My biggest problem with the unions is this. Whenever the unions hold their rallies anymore, what I see alot of is people holding up signs promoting socialism. They were all over the recent dealings in Wisconsin. I have to wonder how many of them knew they were holding up signs promoting socialism. How many didn't care, their only concern was doing what the union told them to do. Many of the union leadership today openly promote socialism, proclaiming that the only way to fix the problem is to do away with capitalism. The free market if you will.
Sorry, but that scares the hell out of me knowing that our own people are trying to tear down the very system which has made this country so great.
Ultimately, the only real freedom we have is to decide what's best for ourselves. I choose to support capitalism and the free market. No, it's not perfect. No system can be, but it's a far cry better than socialism has ever been or will be.
How much maoney someone makes doesn't bother me one bit. Frankly, it's non of my business how much anyone else makes. And I find it rather childish for anyone to worry about how much someone else is making. That being said, I do think it's wrong for a ceo to make millions in bonuses when the company is going down and out of business while the workers are getting the shaft. I.P.L. is a very good example on that one with Daniels making millions on a bad deal and the workers losing their retirement. That was just plain wrong and I have never cared for Daniels because of that.
In the end, right is right, wrong is wrong. Party is irrelevant. Yes, I'm a republican, but it's not the party line I follow. My values are based on individual liberty and what I believe is best in that sense. Not what is best for a party or company or union because it's the individual that makes this country so great.
Friday, November 25, 2011: 10:42 am
More from Ratcatcher
|The disparity between CEO wages and worker wages in the U$ is 475 to 1|
That is probably true. But SO WHAT?! If wanted to be a CEO of a company I would've went to business school and gotten an MBA. If making lots of money was my priority in life I would've went to med school or law school. But I didn't and that was my choice. I am certainly not going to begrudge my boss because he makes more money than me because he chose to spend more time and money educating himself. Jealousy will get you nowhere and coveting your neighbors stuff is a sin. I am happy with my three bedroom ranch and my 8 year old used chevy. I don't have any desire to be like him and live in a mansion with a swimming pool and drive a hummer. But apparantly he does and that is ok for him. We all make choices in life. The problem is that some people regret their choices and then want to complain about it or make other people compensate them for it. If you don't like your job then go back to school and get a better one. Pay for an education instead of union dues. Don't have a job at all? Get your GED instead of standing around with your hand out expecting someone else to take care of you.
Friday, November 25, 2011: 11:00 am
More from Ratcatcher
|Alas, like you mentioned "You win some you lose some". Isn't life grand? :D|
Yep. My life is pretty good. I win some and I lose some. Life isn't fair and nowhere in my Bible does it say that it is.
Negotiating is what you do in a job interview?
Yep. I negotiated for a higher salary after being offered a job. They counter offered with a lower pay that I did not accept. I chose not to accept the job. Guess I lost on that negotiation, huh?
What is the difference between a collective strike, and you leaving???
Me leaving was MY choice and only involved one person. My former employer can find someone else to replace me. A collective strike involves many people and the employer can't as easily replace an entire company. I like being my own person and making my own destiny in life and not acting like an ant in a colony playing follow the leader whether the decision being made by the collective is right for me or not.
The scenario of the recent graduate you gave...I lived something quite similar for over a year being underemployed because it was cheaper to hire a new grad than myself with all my experience. It was a tough time but I finally ended up at my current company. They like having experienced people on board. That might be why they are at the top of their game in this area while some of their competitors are going under, being bought out, etc. Maybe that is why I appreciate my job and boss and don't like it when union people who don't know him assume he only out to stick it to all his employees in order to make an extra $1.
I'm sick and tired of being discredited, labeled, and blamed for societal ills because I'm a union member.
I never did that to you.
I am sick of being harassed on a blog because I have a nice boss and like my non-union job.
Friday, November 25, 2011: 12:18 pm
More from Sunny
I forgot to add Jimmy Hoffa's example was the same as Wisconsin Republican Governor Scott Walker's recorded phone conversation where he threaten to plant spies in the protesting crowd outside of their statehouse, to stir up trouble and get the police to launch tear gas and make arrests, or call the national guard out if he could find a legal loophole. Then he threatened to take a ball bat to his political opponents... What's the difference?
I don't promote or advocate socialism. I VOTE for my union steward, my local representative, local president, treasurer, etc...along with national offices, and have a chance to speak and vote at our monthly meetings!.... Sounds like a democracy to me. It's very similar to running for.....mayor? In Wisconsin these people were exercising their 1st amendment rights legally. If and when there is a strike, these people do what has been since unions were formed legally according to labor laws. I've never read any written, heard any oral statements from any union official EVER that the American way of and capitalism is bad. TURN OFF RUSH! You're scared because you believe things that are MADE UP!
Yes, freedom is nice, and I CHOOSE to be a union member, I've always had the choice..which is quite contrary to what proponents of this legislation want the public to believe. I CHOOSE to support capitalism JUST as much as you claim to do. Unions being a socialist puppet is BS in it's purist form. What were these non-union positions in the company you worked for? Were they white collar jobs? Ahh...forget it.
I'm not jealous of anyone but I will point out injustice. What I DO care about and what EVERYONE in this country does regardless of labor status or profession; whether they want to admit it or not, is making a fair and comparable wage in our free market system!
Friday, November 25, 2011: 12:36 pm
More from Sunny
Ah yes, the Holy Bible. No life isn't fair! I believe American's do have it better than most. I suppose next I am going to hear what I'm bombarded with all the time from extreme right wingers that I am not a "true Christian", and am a sinner because I belong to a Union! I am trash, worthless, less than scum, and all around hell bent sinner!
Lets sum up Ratcatcher shall we? You either inferred or claimed the following:
1. I'm lazy
2. Earn a wage through extortion
3. I'm jealous of others and insecure
5. I'm disrespectful to management and those in authority, and hate my boss.
6. I don't have a vote when we choose to strike or approve a collective bargaining agreement.
7. I'm a follower, not a free thinker, am prone to believe what anyone else tells me.
Friday, November 25, 2011: 1:03 pm
More from Sunny
Woops! I hit the button to early...
1. I'm hard working my friends and family would attest to that
2. I earn a wage through legal means, and I personally work hard for it cause that is a personal moral that I live by. There are union and non-union people that earn more than what they should....I don't get what you mean.
3. I'm not jealous of anyone and I feel I make a fair comparable wage for what I do, and receive personal satisfaction from my accomplishments
4. Did it occur to you that MAYBE JUST MAYBE I have a Bachelor's degree in business admin?
5. I get along well and respect my supervisor. It clearly states in the Union by-laws that we are to have respect for those in authority!
6. I vote on those in office at the hall, have a chance to speak and make my point and vote if necessary at all meetings that I attend.
7. I've made my own choices in life, JUST AS MUCH AS YOU HAVE! I think for myself, worked in both union and non-union shops, and if someone does something ignorant I'm not following them off the cliff! Not one person HAS EVER just handed me anything! I've made MY own destiny to.
You like your boss and like your non-union job? Great! Not a thing wrong with that! I'm happy for you. I've never discredited you or called YOU lazy, a non thinker, uneducated, and a sinner! I made a comment on a piece of radical, corporate greed legislation, and I then I hear this crap.
The scenario with the recent graduate, it could happen again if another company buys yours out, or there is a management change.
I believe doctors, and other white collar professionals should earn a higher than me because they paid thousands of dollars for their education and studied very very hard.
What I WILL NOT accept and will not advocate is someone telling me that I don't deserve a fair wage because I am allegedly labor and of different class system, and that there should ONLY be RICH "Management" and POOR "Labor" THAT IS UN-AMERICAN! More Medieval if you ask me.
In charge of your own destiny? Hmm...you've never had anyone stand up for you? Been part of a club, church member, or in a place where you had to vote, and if the vote didn't exactly go 100% your way according to YOUR ideas you had to honor what the group wanted to do?
Wake up Rat!
Friday, November 25, 2011: 10:20 pm
More from nobodyimportant
|We live in a Republic, where "the people" are supposed to be represented by representatives chosen by "the people." It is still by far the best model out there, but it is corrupt because money corrupts, and the result is that "the people" are not really represented.|
Political candidates are bought because it takes big money to win an election and the only way to get that big money is to accept it from those that have a lot of it. Nobody sane will fork over large sums of money without some expectation of favorable consideration when the candidate becomes a representative. It must be a nightmare trying to keep track of what is promised in return.
When we discuss who the fat cats are supporting, it is an over-simplification to say that they are pro-Republican or pro-Democrat. Part of it is a game, betting on who will win the race. Some large contributors hedge their bets with donations to both candidates. That tells you something! In many cases, it is not supporting a party of or political philosophy, it is making sure you have access whoever wins. For sure, the Democrats got huge contributions in 2008. The handwriting was on the wall. People were disallusioned with the Bush era and the Republicans didn't field a very good alternative. Duh!
Money corrupts. There is a lot of money in America, so there will be a lot of corruption.
Saturday, November 26, 2011: 5:10 am
More from A Hoosier
|Let's get back to topic. The rants are less than entertaining and actually quite boring. |
Who took what in school and who has what job, is not what we are dicussing. Again, the topic is the employers paying a standard of living wage to their employees. Admitttingly, you drive an older model car. How many of your fellow employees also have to drive older cars? How about the CEO take an hour of his pay and give it to 200 of his employees so that they may be able to afford a safe reliable vehichle? (Disparity 475 to 1) Companies should want to give their employees a good standard of living BUT they don't. It is about profits for themselves and fat checks for the CEO. That is why unions are important, they fight a good fight, to ensure those wages. Without unions companies will pay the least amount possible, and you can take that to the bank.
We could always take $5.00 an hour for our labor as the company profits billions and be thankful for our scrapes but personally, I think we should remind these companies that without their workers they are just an empty building with a guy behind a big desk with a big fat check. Nothing more.
Saturday, November 26, 2011: 6:36 am
More from Ratcatcher
|I suppose next I am going to hear what I'm bombarded with all the time from extreme right wingers that I am not a "true Christian", and am a sinner because I belong to a Union! I am trash, worthless, less than scum, and all around hell bent sinner!|
I've never discredited you or called YOU lazy, a non thinker, uneducated, and a sinner!
I appreciate that and would like to point out that I never called you any of those names either.
Lets sum up Ratcatcher shall we? You either inferred or claimed the following
According to your oversensitive, one-track-mind way of thinking maybe. I will not reciprocate and sum you up based on this one issue that you are obviously passionate about. Join all the unions you want. It's a free country. Just don't act like there is something wrong with me because I choose not to.
2. Earn a wage through extortion
If a bunch of crybaby athletes go on strike I couldn't care less. Wanna shut down the line at an autoplant? I don't care cause I don't need to buy that car tomorrow anyways. But when public employees shut down schools, transportation and city trash service, etc that is extortion of the taxpayer and I am a taxpayer. What would happen if all the healthcare workers went on strike? Would you support them while you stood by and watched a family member die because of their greed and desire to make a point?
Saturday, November 26, 2011: 6:49 am
More from Ratcatcher
|the topic is the employers paying a standard of living wage to their employees|
Ok, but who do you think should decide what a "standard of living wage" is? This is where the problem lies. Should it be the employer, the employee, or some independent government panel and how would you know they were really independent and their decision wasn't being bought by the company or the union? Corruption abounds in situations like that.
How about the CEO take an hour of his pay and give it to 200 of his employees so that they may be able to afford a safe reliable vehichle?
And if he doesn't do you advocate forcibly taking it from him? I.E. Spread the wealth? My CEO donates plenty of money to charities and I get a bonus most years. I don't think the 2012 model of my car would be much safer than the 2003 I'm driving now. Besides, who says everyone is entitled to a car period let alone a "safe" one. What's wrong with riding public transportation to work?
Saturday, November 26, 2011: 9:04 am
More from Sunny
Act like something is wrong with you?
You like your boss and like your non-union job? Great! Not a thing wrong with that! I'm happy for you.Did I not say that?
What would happen if all the healthcare workers went on strike? Would you support them while you stood by and watched a family member die because of their greed and desire to make a point?
So....if they went on strike and let people die....how is that different than when your Republican allies think people should be left to die if they enter a hospital AND DON'T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE!!! Example: The crowds reaction when Ron Paul was asked that during the Republican tea party debate "YES YES LET THEM DIE". Plus I hear far right wingers say they should be left to die all the time!! SO...THE "POINT" (as you like to say) they are making is if you don't have health coverage you die! GIVE ME A BREAK RATCATCHER!!!
They are usually called "Trade Unions" or "Labor Unions"...I doubt there is a union for the life science lab work you do, or other professional and white collar jobs.
Athletes, autoworker....trash collectors ....Private sector = customers, Public sector = customers or taxpayers...what's the difference??? We all work for someone.
If you personally (individually) ask for a raise, or threaten to leave, or if a group does it.... IT'S THE SAME FREAKING THING!!! GET OVER IT!!! What is good for the goose is good for the gander!!
Sensitive? Hmmm.... The problem I have with you Ratcatcher is I believe you feel superior to me because your line of work is soooo much more important than mine, and I am just dumb labor. The comments you make about Unions has a "Look down your nose at me appeal" I am guessing you automatically think people who labor for a living shouldn't make a wage or benefits anywhere close to what people who have an education and manage do. I've dealt with that prejudice, seen it and heard it. You are the one who insulted the unions, and people who belong to them. Those people seem to be jealous and care about what other people should make, yet they accuse the unions of being greedy and whine too much about what their bosses make!
Saturday, November 26, 2011: 1:44 pm
More from Danny Stewart
I can give you one union guy right off the top of my head. Andy Sterns. He is the former head of the S.E.I.U. I've seen the videos of him admitting he wanted socialism. He is aligned with Vesn Jones, a vowed communist and many others. Bernstein is considered the most dangerous man in America because of his radical views. He is part of the NEA and also a vowed socialist. Same with his wife. All of these people are in with Obama.
Now, you asked, if a single person wanted to be in a union without the rest of the people, what if a single person didn't want to be in the union. The union would go nuts. And so would alot of members.
Absolutely true. Even at the local level.
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