Local pastors disagree with billboard's message
read more recent story comments Reader comments| rfw Saturday, April 14, 2012: 7:55 am More from rfw  | Why did the editor feel the need to have balanced coverage on this article about the CFI Billboard but not on the article extoling the virtues of the reliigous education (indoctrination) in the schools? If you have religious people's opinions in the article about the CFI Billboard then to really be a fair and balanced newspaper, you should have included nonreligious peoples' opinions in the one about religion in public schools. Another example of religious privilege |
| rfw Saturday, April 14, 2012: 8:20 am More from rfw | Why not comments from nonreligious on the article about religious education in the schools and a headline: Local Nonreligious Object to Religious Education in Public Schools? With all the talk about more time for basic education, why is time being taken away from basic education for religious indoctrination? That should be left up to parents and churches on their own time and not on school time. |
| tlh Saturday, April 14, 2012: 8:58 am More from tlh | So how bout a sign right beside or just after that says, "WITHOUT GOD = LIMITED WARRANTy WITH GOD = GUARANTED ETERNITY YOU CHOOSE!" Just sayin..... |
| CC Saturday, April 14, 2012: 12:06 pm More from CC | i am just saying it is free choice. |
| jameson Saturday, April 14, 2012: 2:01 pm More from jameson | Miss Fisher, can you please elaborate further on these alleged historical witnesses of jesus christ or as i prefer to call him, josh from two towns over)?" those interviewed for this article show the true side of the distorter-times, as i expected nothing less than bias from anything printed by this team. as study after study has continuously proven, there is zero difference in moral behavior between the "faithful" and those who are non-believers. the real question here is "can one be good with god?" obviously the answer is no, unless you live your lives like most self-proclaimed christians, ignoring a majority of what the bible actually states. today's religions are tomorrow's ancient myths; i don't know about you, but i'm ready for tomorrow to come... |
| Charlie Saturday, April 14, 2012: 6:09 pm More from Charlie | Some local pastors, while not denying the organization’s right to post the message said they disagree with its content. The Rev. Matt Higgins, pastor at Calvary Heights Baptist Church, said, “The message of the billboard is essentially true. You can hope, care, love and live without God. “But you’re hoping and caring for things that will let you down. You’re loving something less fulfilling than Christ. Less fulfilling than Christ? According to the infallible Christian bible, Christ condemns everyone who does not recognize him as their personal savior. (John 14:6) There are now 7.2 billion of us on this little blue dot of a planet. 67% of us (that would be over 4.8 billion) are, according to Jesus, condemned to eternal agony. The purpose of punishment is to effect a change in behavior. This is not punishment. It is cruel, merciless, sadistic revenge. Forcing ourselves to believe something we disbelieve is impossible. If we did that, we would be hypocrites of the worst order. And for this we get punished for eternity? Higgins continues: “And you’re living for here and now and not for eternity. ...It’s false advertising.” Actually Rev. Higgins, you are the one guilty of false advertising. As a protestant, you make up a distinct minority of the world’s Christian population; only 16%. Catholics, who you also think are going to spend eternity in hell, make up the other 17%. The Rev. John Hall of St. Martin of Tours Catholic Church said he would prefer people ignore it instead of giving it attention. “I don’t agree with it,” Hall said. “With freedom of religion though, we respect their right to their thoughts and ask them to respect ours.” Sorry Reverend Hall. I cannot respect someone who believes I deserve to be tortured for eternity, simply for what I disbelieve. And I remind you that you also belong to a minority of 17%. The vast majority, nearly 6 billion of us, do not believe that a long dead religious zealot named Jesus, can be (actually, not figuratively) consumed in the form of a wafer. The Rev. Carol C. Fisher, pastor at First Presbyterian Church, said groups or churches should encourage their members to act in the most faithful way possible without putting other people down. She said the Presbyterian church encourages inquiry in order for believers to deepen their faith. She, however, said she disagrees with the center’s statements. Rev. Fisher also has a problem. Truth does not need faith. It will stand nicely on its own. People often join churches for what they believe and then get kicked out for what they know. “Personally,” Fisher said, “I don’t agree with their point of view as I believe in a God who created, redeemed and continues to sustain us.” Really, Rev. Fisher? God continues to sustain us? Are you unaware that 10.9 million children under five die in developing countries each year and that malnutrition and hunger related diseases are the cause of the majority of those deaths? Do you not realize that adds up to nearly 21 deaths every single minute, just of children under 5? If you read at the average rate of 200 words per minute, 8 innocent children under the age of 5 died just while you were reading this paragraph. “Our hope for an abundant life is found in Christ.” You can hope all you like but that won’t change the horrible statistics I just gave you. She continues: “There are many historical witnesses to the life and ministry of Jesus Christ.” No there certainly is not. Bart Ehrman, a noted biblical scholar and former evangelical who taught himself Greek so he could read the bible in its original language can teach us a lot about what the original bible really said. His book, “Forged”, would be a good place to start. Two other salient points. 1.The intellectual prison in which believers have condemned themselves locks from the inside and only they hold the key. We can argue with them till we are blue in the face and all to no avail. They must free themselves. Many have. 2. It is nearly impossible to make a man or woman understand something if their very livelihood depends on them not understanding it. Breaking free of religion can have major financial repercussions for those who have taken that career path. |
| Lassiter Sunday, April 15, 2012: 12:37 am More from Lassiter | Wow, as if there aren't enough issues to deal with already. Now we have dueling roadside prophets spewing "I'm right and everyone else is wrong!". If people would stop bickering about things they can't do anything about maybe we would solve some real problems. Like our country going under water! |
| Danny Stewart Sunday, April 15, 2012: 4:06 am More from Danny Stewart | Lassiter, You can't say that. It simply makes too much sense. |
| Charlie Sunday, April 15, 2012: 10:46 am More from Charlie | Lassiter said: Wow, as if there aren't enough issues to deal with already. Now we have dueling roadside prophets spewing "I'm right and everyone else is wrong!". If people would stop bickering about things they can't do anything about maybe we would solve some real problems. Like our country going under water! One purpose of the billboard was to get folks talking about belief and non-belief. Looks like that's working. As to the notion that the atheist billboard "spews" "I'm right and you are wrong" help me understand just how a slogan proclaiming, "You don't need God to hope, to love, to live," spews anything except reason and logic. In the Scandinavian countries, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, over 80% of the population do not believe in a personal god. Yet, they lead the world in overall quality of life and the lowest violent crime. They are far ahead of us in the percentage of income they donate to poor nations. In overall quality of life,they are considered the best places to live, taking into consideration health, freedom, unemployment, family life, political stability and gender equality. (Read "Society Without God", by Phil Zuckerman.) I agree with Mr. Lassiter that our country is going underwater. What better way to bail us out than to follow the example of the Scandinavian countries and admit to ourselves that we don't need a god to hope, to love, to live. |
| Charlie Sunday, April 15, 2012: 1:30 pm More from Charlie | It has been my experience that those who tout the bible have in fact never actually read it. And worse, they don't read other books either. How many people on this thread will bother to read "Society Without God", the book I mentioned in previous comment? My guess....zero. Will Rogers said, "We are all ignorant...just about different things." And he was exactly right. I consider myself one of the most ignorant people on the face of the earth. But there is a difference between my kind if ignorance; the kind that Will Rogers was talking about, and willful ignorance, the kind that religious people are infected with. In this age, remaining willfully ignorant when we have such a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips, is in my opinion one of the most egregious sins we can commit. To teach our children fairy tales as truth; to make them believe they might suffer unimaginably in hell unless they profess to "love" a celestial sky daddy who reads their every thought, is nothing less than child abuse. Any person capable of intelligent thought knows it is impossible to "love" the same thing you fear. I'm sick of it and I salute the young woman (yes my misogynous friends, it was a woman) who felt so strongly about the subject that she made a personal financial sacrifice in order display the message. (Oh here, I’ll spoon feed you the definition of misogyny in case you are unfamiliar with the word.) Misogyny is the hatred of women or girls; reflecting or exhibiting hatred, dislike, mistrust, or mistreatment of women. We can find numerous examples of misogyny in the Christian bible. Here are just a few. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Genesis 3:16 "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Deuteronomy 22:20-21 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. Leviticus 12:2 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." Leviticus 12:5 "But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." The ignorance is simply mind boggling. And to think Americans flock to churches all over the country to listen to this kind of stuff. |
| Ratcatcher Sunday, April 15, 2012: 7:43 pm More from Ratcatcher | Charlie said: To teach our children fairy tales as truth; to make them believe they might suffer unimaginably in hell unless they profess to "love" a celestial sky daddy who reads their every thought, is nothing less than child abuse. Really? I'll bet you taught your kids the fairy tales of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. Now by your own words that makes you a liar and a child abuser. who felt so strongly about the subject that she made a personal financial sacrifice in order display the message. How sad that she didn't feel strongly enough about other subjects like starving kids or homeless people to make a personal financial sacrifice. Just like another poster said: we have much more important problems to solve, don't we? |
| Charlie Sunday, April 15, 2012: 9:22 pm More from Charlie | “I'll bet you taught your kids the fairy tales of the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.” “Now by your own words that makes you a liar and a child abuser..” They get over the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. They don't get over religion since it is reinforced each week at least two or three times. Comparing the Easter Bunny to a celestial dictator who threatens you with eternal damnation if you don't worship him is ridiculous on the face of it. “How sad that she didn't feel strongly enough about other subjects like starving kids or homeless people to make a personal financial sacrifice. Just like another poster said: we have much more important problems to solve, don't we? Thank you. You just made a very important point for me. I see these religious signs and huge crosses all over this country. There are literally thousands of them, most threatening us with eternal hell if we fail to surrender our reason to the celestial sky daddy. She has one lonely little sign; and that was in response to the “You are going to hell” sign which was there for months on end. If you want to bring starving kids into the argument, I suggest you address your comments to the sanctimonious, self-righteous and smug believers. They are the ones who spend millions on silly signs that make this one person’s expenditures look like mere pocket change. The easiest argument to make is when the audience knows little about the subject and the speaker has lots of time. Throw in a charismatic speaker and it’s a slam dunk. "Believers" carry the bible to church with them for 50 years and don’t have a clue what is in it. They go in, sit down and turn their brains switch to the off position so their preacher can do the thinking for them. Apparently, you are one of them. Religion is so EASY!! All you have to do is abandon your reason, logic and critical thinking skills. |
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