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Same-sex marriage ban would impact 614 laws

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abathar
Tuesday, November 27, 2012: 2:30 pm
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�I�ve pointed out over and over that the people who would vote for this amendment are on the wrong side of history,� he said.

No, they are on the right side of history. You on the other hand are the ones who want to fundamentally change our way of life so you can feel better about yourself.

Gays make up between 2-3% of the population, yet believe the rest of the 97-98% are out of touch. Sorry, but there are far more traditionalists around here than there are extreme progressives like yourselves, and will be that way for a long, long time I hope.

Ratcatcher
Tuesday, November 27, 2012: 4:21 pm
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Yes there are far more traditionalists around than progressives but unfortunately the majority of them don't vote or participate in politics. If they did we wouldn't have so many liberals running this country into the ground.

John Q Public
Tuesday, November 27, 2012: 7:38 pm
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How does allowing gay marriage change your life?

nobodyimportant
Tuesday, November 27, 2012: 8:16 pm
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John, I'm not the author of this article. The short answer to your question for me is, it doesn't change my life directly, as I would choose not to participate. There is, however, ......the rest of the story.

It is not, nor should it be, about me or you. If you don't believe there are moral absolutes, that is, your truth can be ok, even if it isn't true, you can easily take that position to the conclusion, which I think is, "let everybody do whatever." Or, "whatever turns your crank."

Christians get a lot of flack from the intelligentsia for being "narrow minded, inflexible, and/or intolerant." Yet that is exactly what the Christian is supposed to do on issues of faith. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some people who call themselves Christians have decided that they know better than God and that it is time to become tolerant of or at least treat causally selected sins. Children and new Christians may foolishly follow these false teachers. God is not going to be tolerant of those who would lead these "little ones" astray.

So how does that play out on the issue of gay marriage? Clearly, the Christian position should be that homosexuality is an abomination, a sin. So, that takes care of us who are following Christ. No problem for us. But there can be no defense for promoting or ignoring sin. So, even if I have no desire or intention to participate in that sin, I should do what I can to speak the truth so that others may not stumble because of my silence.

We live in community. None of us are islands unto ourselves. What each of us does affects others. God is watching us. In that day, I don't want to stand before Him and hear, "I never knew you." Nobody may listen, but that doesn't give me cause to stay silent.

John Q Public
Tuesday, November 27, 2012: 8:52 pm
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Nobody, I was asking the initial poster who stated that his life is trying to be fundamentally changed. I just do not fully understand how one's life can be changed so much by this and that is why I asked the question. I respect your faith but it is your faith, not mine, not ours. Each person has their own faith and whether that faith is God or not each side should not hinder or infringe on the other. The argument I constantly hear on this topic is it is against my religion or the bible is against it. If that is your prerogative then that is great, so don't do it but I don't think it should be banned just because your religion is against it. I don't drink alcohol or smoke but if you do it is none of my business unless it is harmful to me. The obvious affect with these comparisons are clearly the secondhand smoke or the drunk driving. I know this isn't the same but I'm looking for how it affects someone else similar to these. I'm trying to understand how this could be harmful to someone. Thank you for your response.

nobodyimportant
Wednesday, November 28, 2012: 8:17 am
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Thanks John. I don't think it changes my position. My Bible teaches me that I am third in line, God, others, then me. I can't take the position that my faith is just between God and myself. Certainly I can't accept "everyone to their own religion" because that would mean there is no absolute truth and no God. So, in teaching others, in sharing what I believe to be truth, I have to come against sin not for me, but for them.

The most uncaring and cold-hearted thing I could do would be to say, "that's their problem, it doesn't affect me."

John Q Public
Wednesday, November 28, 2012: 9:26 am
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Nobody I don't for a second believe we can convince each other to change our opinions and I don't want to change anyones ideas or beliefs. I'm just trying to understand your position. A very good Baptist preacher that I thoroughly enjoy taught one day that no one sin is worse than any other sin. To say "I hate Joe" is not any different than "I'm gonna kill Joe." I am more inclined to disagree with him because I think there are some sins that are far worse than other sins. So if we take this logic and I'm not saying that it is yours or anyone else's, then we need to make divorce illegal, as well as premarital sex and swearing and adultery...etc. At what point would we end this? Not being a Christian or not heeding to the sole word of the bible doesn't make someone a horrible person. How you treat others controls that. Being a Christian and having faith doesn't make you a good person how you treat others controls that. I have seen good and bad from both demographics on this.

You said that you can't accept everyone to their own religion. There are numerous religions in this world and those are even divided up based on specific beliefs or interpretations. But everyone has their own and we all think that ours is the way that God or Buddha or Allah or whoever wants and that is the way it should be. So who is right? You have great things come from religion and you have horrible things that come from religion. So do we take the religious views from Catholicism or Presbyterian or Apostolic? Do we go to Scientology or Athiesm or Wiccan? There are so many, which is why I feel we should just let bygones be bygones.

nobodyimportant
Wednesday, November 28, 2012: 8:24 pm
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It is a good conversation John. The Baptist preacher was right, there is no hierarchy of sin. Pure and simple, sin is what separates us from God. There is no such thing as a "white lie". You and I may see some sin as more egregious than others, but then again, the only standard for me is the Bible, and not my best (or worst) thinking.

You are right, there a lot of "good" non-Christians. The only thing is, they are going to experience the same fate as "bad" people, including Christians who think they have their hell insurance because they joined a church. It is not about being good or bad. None of us deserve to be saved. There is nothing we can do to earn salvation.

John, when you and I close our eyes for the last time, and probably me before you (I'm pretty old), we might have some time to think about what is next. Here's the deal. I am 100% sure that I'm going to enjoy the presence of the creator for eternity. What do you think will be on your mind? Are we just alive by freak actions of nature, living till we die and then.....darkness......nothing? I don't want to die, but I know I will. But for me, it is just the beginning, not the end.

As to the question, "who is right?" I can't see the future, but I believe I'm right. I don't want to get to that last breath and be asking who is right. What I know is that after that breath, I can't change my mind or make a decision. It has to be made while here.

John Q Public
Thursday, November 29, 2012: 9:06 am
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Very thought provoking. I think that when I die that is the end for me. I will close my eyes for the last time and that will be it. Several years ago I read a definition of faith that I like. Faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence. The amount of faith I have is clearly less than yours, but I need the evidence. I don't like to push the so called "I believe" button. This might be shocking to you but I regularly attend church. I enjoy the gathering and the discussion. I think the message I get from the pastor each week is great. I don't feel that someone has to be a Christian and live by the bible to be a good person. The bible is an excellent book to learn morals from but the problem for me is I don't think the book is valid. It is full of contradictions and events and ideas that do not match Science or History.

The main problem I have is the so called war on religion that constantly gets talked about. Of course the location we are in makes me the minority, which also is probably why i hear about it more and I'm fine with that. If you are against gay marriage, that is fine. By all means be against it, that is your right as a human being. But to intrude your ideas to prevent someone else's happiness, where the only thing that is damaged on you is your feelings, is where I have the issue. I'm glad that you can have your religion but your religion and your ways should not govern me. That is my belief and if I'm wrong then let me talk to the Creator in the afterlife. I think the church should stay out of laws and stay out of government.

nobodyimportant
Friday, November 30, 2012: 9:10 am
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Wow. I wish I had more time this morning, so this will probably be in segments.

John, we use a lot of terms, faith, religion, church. They aren't the same.

On faith, the definition you like is not unlike that in the Bible. Clearly faith does not require evidence. It is on unseen things. Interesting, though is the amount of evidence outside of the Bible of the events and places associated with Christ. It is comforting to me that there has been no evidence to the contrary.

I am in a Bible study right now in the synoptic gospels. One of the discussion points is the differences in the way which the save event is described by three authors. Skeptics like to point these out as evidence of inconsistencies (in the least) to contradictions (in the most). In each situation, after digging into it, you find no contradiction. I am thankful for the inconsistencies. Had the Gospel writers conspired to mislead, the accounts would be exactly the same. The differences are a testimony to the honesty of each. If you have ever been one among several witnesses to an event and had to give testimony as to what you saw, you know what I mean.

Let me ask you a question. Let's say that you have just discovered the cure for what was thought to be an incurable disease, one that always ends in death. Would you not make sure that everyone who had that disease learned of your discovery so that they could live? This is why it is important for Christians to tell others about the cure for spiritual death. It would be the coldest most uncaring thing for me to keep my salvation for myself.

But also as Christians, we know that this is a decision for each person. I can't force you or or anyone else to accept salvation. The best I can do is tell you the truth, which includes pointing out those things that will need to go away in your life, things that keep you from taking advantage of God's grace. So yes, we speak out about those things to individuals and through society.

For about thirty years, I attended a church where each Sunday, I heard an inspiring message from the pulpit. The minister(s) over that period of time were eloquent and delivered good messages. The thing is, they were mostly "social" messages, not based on the Bible. What I have come to understand and believe is that you cannot take the Bible out of Christianity and you cannot pick and choose which parts you will adopt and which parts to will dismiss. All this to say, if you are like I was, a pew warmer there for the companionship and feel-good message, I recommend you find another church, one where you will be challenged, even pushed, to become a disciple.

I can't see into your heart, I can only respond to what I think you are saying in this post. I am not telling you that you are lost. I get the impression you are. So if you are looking to have that afterlife dialogue, you need to be in the same place as He will be.

As for the religion-government issue, some people have misinterpreted our U.S. Constitution on this issue. Never did the framers say that religion has no role in government. They made one simple premise and that is that the federal government should not be connected to a particular religion or religious denomination. They did not want this country to become as some across the pond countries had, blends of religion and government at the head.

Christians can't live by faith on Sundays only. We are called to be in the world but not of it. In other words, we are set apart to be different from the world. We can do that, but it is not easy. Governments are ordained by God. We live under government rule and are bound to be obedient to that rule unless and only unless we are forced into a position of denying and practicing our faith. That hasn't happened. Thank God, we live in a country where we are free to do that.

So, you might say, fine...just leave those of us alone that don't agree with you.
There comes a point where I will, but I care too much about you to go away quickly and quietly. I was a hard case. I knew better. I figured out that my best thinking was good enough. I'm glad I woke up.

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